Creating a Successful Business with Vision, Integrity and Community
(Listen on Apple or Spotify. Full transcript below.)
Have you ever wondered what it takes to achieve success in the food industry while maintaining a balanced work culture?
This is a true BABOYOT (Building a Business on Your Own Terms) episode, in which I lost count of the number of ways that Niki and Mike, founders of the Fishtown Pickle Project are building a business, a work culture and community on their own terms.
Whether you are a fellow BABOYOT founder, or need some inspiration to block out the noise and build the business of your dreams, Fishtown Pickles’ story of innovative thinking, commitment to vision, and a people-first approach is one you don’t want to miss.
From Wedding Favors to Retail Shelves
In a world where small businesses often face overwhelming challenges, the journey of Niki and Mike from Fishtown Pickles stands out as inspiration for building a business on your own terms. This awesome husband and wife duo has successfully transformed a passion project into a thriving business. Their story is a compelling narrative of creativity, steadfastness, and strategic growth. Here's a closer look at their fascinating journey.
The Humble Beginnings
Niki and Mike's foray into the pickling business began in an unexpected way—through wedding favors. Mike, a chef by trade, had been making pickles every summer using Kirby cucumbers. These pickles became a hit at their wedding reception, leading them to participate in a local pickle festival. Their success at the festival prompted them to take the leap and establish Fishtown Pickles officially in 2019. Despite initial challenges, such as using school kitchens and learning the intricacies of packaging, their unique flavors and dedication to quality quickly garnered attention.
Navigating the Competitive CPG Market
Breaking into retail is no easy feat, especially with a refrigerated product. Many retailers were initially hesitant to allocate valuable shelf space to an unknown brand. However, Niki and Mike's strategy of giving away free products to demonstrate consumer demand paid off. They eventually secured spots in major retailers like Wegmans, standing out as a premium product by sticking to their values, such as using 32-ounce glass jars to maintain product quality.
Sticking to YOUR Values
One of the standout aspects of Fishtown Pickles' success is their unwavering commitment to their values. Despite the potential for better profitability with smaller jars, they chose to stick with the 32-ounce glass jars. This decision was driven by aesthetic reasons, efficiency, and a desire to prevent food waste. Their commitment to maintaining product quality and sticking to their core values set them apart in the market, creating a loyal customer base.
Building a Business on your Own Terms
Niki and Mike's approach to team building and community connection is as innovative as their pickle flavors. They emphasize the importance of hiring reliable and hardworking employees, often promoting from within to create a loyal and satisfied workforce. They also highlight the effectiveness of traditional marketing strategies over social media, focusing on building strong community connections. And implementing a four-day workweek has been crucial in maintaining a healthy work-life balance for their team.
This focus on building a business on their own terms has been instrumental in their success, allowing them to stay true to their vision while fostering a positive work environment.
Financial confidence and Strategic Growth
Financial confidence has played a significant role in Fishtown Pickles' ability to grow. By becoming more data-driven and financially informed, they managed to achieve better net profits despite modest revenue growth. Regular financial check-ins and business advisement meetings have been instrumental in making smarter business decisions. Their ability to balance personal passions with business needs has empowered them to navigate the complexities of running a small business effectively.
Get Inspired
Niki and Mike's journey with Fishtown Pickles is a testament to the power of passion, integrity, and strategic thinking. From humble beginnings to becoming a significant player in the pickle market, their story is filled with valuable lessons for any food founder aspiring to build a business on their own terms.
Connect with Fishtown Pickle Project: www.fishtownpickles.com
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Episode Timeline
00:00 Welcome Back and Introduction to Fishtown Pickles
12:51 The Journey of Fishtown Pickles
37:08 Navigating Wholesale and Direct Sales
45:16 Implementing a Four-Day Work Week
01:01:17 Financial Awareness and Sustainability
Full Episode Transcript
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this. Welcome to the Good Food CFO podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Delevan, and with me as always is our producer, Chelsea Stier.
Hi, Sarah. Welcome to season 12.
Yeah, welcome back. After a few weeks on hiatus, we're kicking things off this week with a BABOYOT episode. Two founders from near my hometown, if you haven't heard, I'm from Scranton, PA, and the Fishtown Pickle Project.
which was founded by dietician Niki Toscani and her husband, chef Mike Sicinski, is based in Philadelphia. So there was like a good level of camaraderie and like love, I think, mutually at the jumpstart of this episode, which was like super fun. But we get to hear their story of how after gifting handcrafted pickles to their wedding guests, they quickly found themselves in a...
business, a food business that was like starting to become successful. so Fishtown Pickles specializes in creating small batch refrigerated pickles with culinary inspired flavors, really unique flavors. And they have a mission to bring people together with good food that creates joy, is kind to the earth, cultivates community and uplifts other small businesses. And I have to say that that mission really comes through
in our conversation. found myself saying like, that's a BABOYOT moment and that's a BABOYT moment so many times. And it was often around these key things that they're striving to do.
Sarah, I loved listening to this conversation. Like you said, it was very clear that Nikki and Mike have developed this really strong vision. And they're living up to it, right? I thought that it was so relatable.
to hear the portion of the conversation where they were talking about kind of like all the noise that you kind of get around you as a founder, right? Requests from retailers, requests from customers, and how it can be really easy in that to second guess yourself or to want to bend to those requests.
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you can tell that they really believed in that vision and in that mission. And that allowed them to really stand firm in their choices. it's really, I think it's unique in a way, right? Because in this industry, there are so many people saying this is how you should do it. And that's so often rooted in the way it's always been done, or the way that a larger
company or corporation has done it and succeeded, maybe with higher margins, maybe with lower cogs, whatever it is. And so I think it's really inspiring to hear from founders who are like, we heard that and we understood what maybe making a change would result in financially, but we also knew that we'd be wasting product, for example, right? Or something that was really inherent and important to their mission and their vision for the business would
they'd have to let go of it and they just weren't willing. And I find it to be a really inspiring episode and I cannot wait to get back to Philadelphia and meet those two in person. Yeah, that'll be a really fun time with pickles. I love pickles. Okay, but Sarah, before we get into this conversation in the main episode, we're just starting season 12. We're back. As you said, after a little bit longer of a hiatus, we were off for three weeks.
And we were busy little bees during that break. We were. We were. We officially launched our news segments on YouTube, which is something that you and I have been talking about for a while. It's been part of our sort of grander plans for the Good Food CFO. So that was really exciting. As I said, I think in the very first news segment, we're covering the Kroger Albertsons merger, which is still happening at the time that we're recording this episode.
You know, the podcast was on a break, but the news did not stop just because of that. So it felt like the perfect time to launch this new segment. And that's really where we're going to keep up with news that is very timely, that is happening right now. Right. If we were to record a Kroger Albertson's update today, by the time this episode officially comes out, even though it's only a few days from now, that news can be old news. Right. So in an effort to bring you
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our listeners, industry updates and fast-paced news we're going to take to YouTube. And I'm really, really excited about that next step in the Good Food CFO. Yeah. And so right now, if you go to our YouTube page, right at the top, you'll see our news section. And we have all of our segments that we do here on the podcast there now. And we'll continue to do that as we share new stories here on the podcast. We'll break them into those shorter videos on our YouTube channel.
But as you already alluded to, we are going to be doing updates exclusive for YouTube and new segments that are exclusive to YouTube. So I think that's going to be really fun. Yeah. And I do want to tease, Chelsea, if it's okay with you, that we're also going to be
updating our website. So right now you can get podcast episodes right on the website. You can get some bonus content on the website if you're a BABOYOT member from our podcast. And eventually in the very near future, you'll also be able to go to the website to get the news as well. So YouTube is our sort of the hub where all of our videos go and then they kind of channel to the website. So you have a one-stop shop regardless of which location you choose to really get all of your podcasts and news from The Good Food CFO.
Yeah, it's going to be really exciting. And I'll tease even a little further that with those changes to the website, not only are you going to be able to find the new specific segments, but we're actually going to make it a lot easier to find any of the content that you're looking for. I'm so excited about that. Yeah, that's been a long time coming. Yeah. Yeah. So what else, Sarah, did we do while we were on a break? Yeah. I mean, one of my favorite things about
our hiatus was that we had our book club event. So we had chosen 4,000 weeks as our book club selection and really talked a lot about it. It was a very personal choice for me. I talked a lot about it in the newsletter. If you're not in our newsletter, like we'll put a link to that in the show notes. We do updates there, know, weekly, some insights into what's going on at the Good Food CFO, things like that.
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But it was a really personal book and I really, as did you, this event to be our most attended because I felt like it was such an important topic and so valuable for good food founders to come together and talk around. So that was amazing. Yeah. And it was our biggest event yet. Not only did we want it to be, but it happened. And it was really cool to get together with founders, have that conversation, to see how
something that resonated with me per se, right? Also resonated with everyone else in the room. And we were able to have that bigger conversation around this particular topic, but to have that connection and to know that... It always takes me back to when I was a retail manager and I worked for a corporation, right? So I was a retail manager of one location,
amongst other locations and running a business on your own like that. We've talked about this before. can feel so lonely. then we would have our district meetings. And every district meeting, I walked away going, there are 12 other managers that are having the same problems that I'm having that are facing the same obstacles. And we can talk about it.
brainstorm about it. And I always left feeling so inspired, so invigorated, so energized and not alone. Yeah. I think the cool thing about 4,000 weeks was that we were talking about business, but we also weren't. The book was chosen and I talked about this a bit in the newsletter too. So sorry for repeating myself for those of you who have read that, but
You know, the book club exists to support our efforts in changing the way that food business is done and encouraging and supporting founders, including myself, right, in truly being BABOYOT and doing what, you know, Nikki and Mike have been, you know, successful at doing in their business of like staying true to their missions and what is valuable to them. And when we read a book like 4000 Weeks and we select it for the book club, it's intentional.
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It's meant to sort of exercise that BABOYOT muscle, you know, and really get to the root of like, what do we want and why is it important to strive to build a business, you know, that way in the BABOYOT way. And it was very cool to, you know, there were some folks on the call in the Zoom room that we had never met before and some that we sort of have a long relationship with as BABOYOT members, but it was immediately deep.
and immediately supportive and really beautiful without getting too woo-woo about things. It just was a really great experience. And so I'm very excited for the next book, which we did tease, but we're not going to share here, but we did tease it during the book club event. It's a far less woo-woo book this time around, but one that I'm equally excited about and definitely think that people need to read. Yeah. And we are going to be announcing that a little later in the season.
We're going to talk a little bit about the book actually, and really get into why we're picking it for our next book club selection. But before we even get to that, Sarah, I would love for you to kind of help explain or help us understand how listeners can get involved in the book club. Of course. I mean, super easy to be involved in the book club. It's totally free.
You can visit the goodfoodsifo.com. We've got a link at the top of the page. It's called Book Club. And when you click there, you can see our latest book club selection. And then you can also RSVP for the event, which is also totally free. We want to encourage people to read and to connect. Right. Part of what we want to do is inspire community. And as you mentioned, like it's a lonely thing when you're building a business on your own or with a really tiny team. And so coming together to talk about
how things are going for you, to remember why we're fighting this fight in the good food industry, to change the food that is available for people in this country. mean, it's inspiring, it's energizing, it's all sorts of positive things. so literally anyone can join us, whether you're a food founder, a fellow consultant, just an advocate for the good food movement, the book club is a really great place for us to come together.
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Yeah. And so just to reiterate what you're saying is that nobody has to, they don't have to sign up for the book club. They can just follow along, read along with us, and then register for the event for that particular book. Exactly. And I'll add that we do have a bookshop. So we've partnered with bookshop.org. And so all of our book club selections are available on the bookshop. And so you can also get
to there from our website. The really cool thing about that is that a percentage of the purchase price for the book comes to the Good Food CFO podcast to support our efforts, as well as to independent bookshops across the country. So we're, you know, decided to not go with an Amazon shop. If that's where you choose to buy your books, that is totally fine. But we've decided to, you know, create a partnership and give back to those independent bookstores here in the US. So also really exciting part of the book club. Yeah.
So Sarah, all this BABOYOTing has me very excited to get into this episode. You ready? I'm ready. Let's do it.
As a Good Food founder, do you ever feel like your work is done in a silo? Is it difficult to feel confident in your business and financial decisions because you don't have a sounding board? Well, in our weekly CFO office hours, you'll not only get the chance to work shoulder to shoulder with the Good Food CFO herself, Sarah Delevan, but also with a small group of your peers.
Together, you can support each other through the work of building a business on your own terms. Passes are available now on our website. Just visit thegoodfoodcfo.com and click on services.
And now back to the show.
Niki and Mike, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for having us, Sarah. Thanks for having us. As someone whose hometown is Pennsylvania, I'm a little bit extra excited to have the both of you.
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from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania here on the podcast today. I've been following your journey on Instagram for a really long time. So I just want to say first and foremost, thank you for taking some time out of your busy schedule to be here with me today. We're honored. We've been fans of this podcast for a long time. We still go back to some of the older episodes and re-listen to them as our business grows. So thank you for the valuable information that you're putting out there. We are definitely avid listeners and have gained a lot.
That's very sweet. Thank you for saying that. And it means a lot. We strive to provide value. so it's always happy. always good to hear that. Why don't we start with a little bit of the like history and background of Fishtown Pickles. How did you all get started in this business? Yes. It's the most frequently asked question. We did not plan to own a pickling company that was not part of the master plan. We fell into it by accident shortly after gifting.
pickles as wedding favors at our wedding reception. Okay. Yeah, in 2017. Mike is a chef by trade had been making pickles every time Kirby cucumbers were in season, which for us is over the summer. my favorite cucumber. Yes. Yeah. Fast forward. We you know, we had a quickie wedding at City Hall in Philadelphia and then six months later, a reception. So we had barbecue catered and then
And then Pickles' wedding favors and they were a huge hit, not just from friends and family, or people who were working the wedding and they were like, can we buy these somewhere? So it was like the first inkling. And then a couple of months later, there was a Pickle Fest coming to Northern Liberties, which is a neighborhood right next to Fishtown where we live. We were like, why not just do it? We're two crazy newlyweds. So we joined that and we were successful. And we had...
At that point for the festival, we had to LLC. So we did that. We created a little Instagram page, did that. And, and, after that festival, when we saw that we were able to like, you know, bring in some dollars, create excitement, we had interest from a broker interest from a retailer. We just sort of created this passion project pretty naturally. We have both some retail experience. I'm a dietitian by trade and he's a chef and we both had worked.
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for a grocery chain in our professional lifespan. So we had some of that experience getting started, which was very helpful. But we continued on as a passion project until late 2019. think that was when we first officially signed on with QuickBooks. And then in early 2020, when we were really feeling the pressure, the passion project was growing and we were like, all right, is one of us quitting our jobs? What are we doing?
You know, when the pandemic hit, Mike was laid off immediately. He was working at the time running a school food service operation for a district in New Jersey. So when he was let go, we were like, all right, let's do it. That's the history. So I'm curious, Mike, was this a recipe and like the pickles that you made often? Yes. So I just gave them out. You know, I think I got
just inspired from visiting local farmers markets or, you know, hitting farm stands on my way home from work. And I just took an interest in making this, gave them out to friends and family. And I did it for years. It wasn't just like a one-time thing. whenever, you know, I just felt like it or I got, you know, more than a couple requests for it, gave them out to friends and family and everybody always liked them. So fast forward, you know, to when Nikki and I were getting married and thinking about like, what do want to do for a wedding favor? She threw out the idea. Why don't you just make some jars of pickles that you, you know, make every summer and
them out to everybody. Yeah, that's what we did. Yeah. I'm having visions of what that first festival was like. Just give me a sneak peek into how many jars of pickles were you making? What did that ramp up look like outside of the of business-y stuff?
Were you making these pickles from your house? Did you rent a kitchen? What was the situation? So we were working out. So we were both in food. So I was working, like I said, like he said, at the school district. And I actually in the very beginning, I made quite a few jars of pickles there after hours of school. Like, you know, I had a, you know, a big commercial kitchen that only gets you like, you know, for school. So like I had I had access to a little bit of space, a little bit of workspace. So we did a lot there.
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And then as far as that first festival, we were just, we just dove in not knowing what we were doing. Like everything was packed in mason jars that I bought at my target online labels that we ordered, you know, that didn't work well with, with moisture. So it was just a big learning curve. And this festival, that first festival itself was a huge success. I mean, it was shoulder to shoulder people. mean, they outgrew the venue on year one.
So yeah, the festival was just, it was really cool and met a lot of like, didn't realize how many crazy pickle people there are out there. So yeah. Okay. So tell me a little bit about, gonna so you do the festival at this point, you are an LLC, you have an Instagram. Was the thought then, okay, let's get a website set up and start selling direct to people. Was it, let's get into stores. How did things start to evolve in the sales capacity?
Yeah, we naturally leaned into wholesaling the pickles right off the bat. It was the space that we felt most comfortable in and it was where the interest began. But to your point, shortly thereafter, when the pandemic hit, I mean, a lot of people wanted the delivery service or wanted to come figure out ways to get more access.
to our pickles. we did create like a little website that was a landing and used that to do some curbside delivery during the pandemic. But really the interest rate, you know, grew in wholesale fairly quickly. And turned out during the pandemic when we thought, you know, our business, that was it, our little pickle dream or a little, little passion project was over. We found out that pickles were actually, you know,
pretty popular during the pandemic. They're a good apocalyptic food because the shelf life, I guess. It worked out, you know, we got lucky there that it worked out well. And some of our smaller retailers definitely were interested in supporting other local small businesses. I mean, we're in Philadelphia and we say it, we give a lot of credit to the city that we live in, that we're from, where the business started.
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it has lended itself to building so many wonderful relationships. I Philly is not shy about their Philly pride. You know, some other cities, you might not be able to get away with like wearing a shirt that says I heart Philly. Like here, that's like welcome and encouraged. know, you wear it proud and people were really excited to shop small and shop local at that time.
Yeah. I mean, that sort of echoes in a way and it seems like it just happened naturally, but a strategy that we talk about a lot for small and emerging brands is like, your backyard, build the relationships with all the stores and the community in your hometown because the bonds are never going to be stronger. The support is never going to be stronger than like right there. And yeah, Philly, mean, as I said, being from Pennsylvania, think it's
It's a home. It's it's a P.A. thing. Maybe there's a lot of pride from like wherever you're from. Like I was just talking to Mike about how we're probably never going to move back to Scranton. But I still take a lot of pride in being from there. You know what mean? And being a P.A. gal. So I think that that's really cool. I have to ask the question about how you came up with your pricing for wholesale. Was this?
something that was like, we think that we could get this much for our pickles on the shelf and so we're going to sell it this much at wholesale. What did that kind of initial foray into wholesale look in terms of like pricing and your cogs and your margins and stuff like that without going into too many, you know, specifics on the details? Yeah, I would say we a little bit of an idea. It wasn't granular of what our cogs were.
And at that time, we really weren't factoring in Mike's labor, to be honest. You know, we were speaking with some peers in the grocery chain that we had, I was still working there at the time and kind of working backwards, like looking at the competition, knowing what department margins, what those departments were after, kind of worked backwards from there to.
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come up with a price that felt right at that moment. Now, you know, that was back in 2018, 2019, 20. We have done several price increases since then, because we we were more informed as time went on about margins and what we needed to in order to be sustainable. But the initial was just looking at competition and kind of also at like knowing
the industry and asking for what they're trying to hit those stores. Yeah. I mean, that's a smart way to go about it, right? Is to sort of like figure out and also where you want to be on the shelf. Do you consider Fishtown Pickles like a premium pickle brand in comparison to others on the shelf? For sure. Yep. And, you know, to kind of go on the first part of your question or your statement,
We initially, when we were first getting started, we had a lot of pushback from retailers, especially in Philadelphia, because our pickles are refrigerated. And so in Philadelphia, in small independent markets, that's prime real estate. So a lot of those retailers came back to us being like, you know, how, like, are we going to put a no name pickle brand on our shelf? You're telling me what? And so what we did in the very beginning, because we could,
gave out a lot of free product and we said, have something here, just put it on your shelf and let the customers tell you. And that was how we accumulated a lot of accounts from the start. And it went on by growing organically, word of mouth, all of that. Yeah, but we definitely did consider going shelf stable for a long while. And then Mike and I looked at each other and we like, we don't, we at home.
don't purchase shelf stable pickles. So why would we make that jump just to appease them? And we're thrilled now. I mean, now that we're in some huge retailers, Wegmans being one of them, you know, we're in the pickle set at eye level. And it's like a dream. Like, like, this actually did this was a smart move. Hindsight's always 2020. But we will probably get lost on the you know, we could
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or there's like a high likelihood that we would get lost on those grocery shelves. Well, it's really interesting to dive into this. my wheelhouse is finance, right? But when we're talking about what are your costs of goods sold, what is the margin you need, what is the price point that you should and can sell at, the branding, the location in the store, all of that really plays a really significant role in the answers to those questions. And I totally agree with you that
Yeah, if you were more, if you were a shelf stable product, you would likely be competing. I mean, sort of making air quotes, but competing with like the Vlasix and the sort of like commodity pickles on the shelf rather than my assumption is you're with other higher end pickles in the refrigerator. Yeah. And and really what happened over time as we became a little bit more self aware
was that we realized what our value proposition was being in the refrigerator and being, you know, we're in glass jars, we're hand crafting in small batches. It is a premium product just by way of that, you know, to some degree, but it is also, you know, we, it still feels weird to call ourselves a premium product because I can't say from the jump that that was what we aimed for. It was, you know,
most of those things that sort of put us there were based on our personal values. It makes me smile and just really, we talk about building a business on your own terms and that's what you were doing from the beginning, right? Not compromising. It's so, I don't want to say it's so easy, but so common, especially in the early days of a food business for a retailer that a brand wants to get into, right? If they come back to you and say, well, we think you should be shelf stable.
know, we can't put you in the fridge. A lot of folks would say, no, we're not going to be able to succeed if we don't do what the retailer is recommending or asking us to do. And they'll make that switch even though it goes against what they believe in or how they started out, you know, as a brand. And I think there's a lot to be said about your courage and willingness to say, we're making this decision. This is the brand we are going to be.
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But I also love that you're like, we will prove to you that if you put us in the fridge, this will work. You know, we actually had a customer to have. I'll never forget this on the early days. Say to us, you would need to also be in the refrigerator. that's I can't. I don't have any room for that. If you were shelf stable, then I could put you on the shelf and forget about you. I'm like, that is exactly why I am so happy to be in the refrigerator, because then you can't forget about me because you because it was it was a smaller little.
know, shop and I was going to get put on a bottom shelf collecting dust somewhere and no, the product wouldn't have ever sold. So yes, refrigeration is a challenge and probably always will be, but I do think it got us a better shelf place. Any other sort of like early day things that are sort of like hindsight is 2020 that you want to talk about or that you learned in the early days of navigating retail and wholesale that...
you think are important to your story and the success that you're seeing today? Pickle people love to tell you what they love. They love to talk pickles. And that was really great and also a little overwhelming from the start because, know, we would, let's say at that pickle festival, the first one that we did, we had however many flavors. think we only had like two or three, two. And, you know, people were like, well,
Are you, do you make this? Do you, want this, you know, or like, why is your price that? And it's, it's a hard thing when you're first starting out to sit with and, and answer and like kind of be strong in your, in those decisions because you're sort of questioning everything.
in those early stages, but you know, a lot, had a lot of pushback too on, you know, the fact that we were glass, the fact that we're in a 32 ounce jar, which is not common for pickles as well. And, you know, it was a higher price point, you know, but, we're thrilled, you know, that we stuck to, to our convictions there and, and had faith and like talk to people and sort of grew over time and became more educated.
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so that we felt more comfortable and stable in what we already knew in our gut to be fine and okay. But yeah, I mean, in the beginning you wanna appease so many people, so many other people. And at the end of the day, you've got to think about what it is that you're offering and what your capabilities are. for us, the big, I'll wrap it up and say the look back really was,
we actually, the vision, the mission, the values came out from what we instilled in the very beginning, which was our personal beliefs and really just protecting what we knew and what we loved, the flavor that Mike made and gave away at our wedding. Yeah. I want to talk about the 32 ounce jar size. Can you share a little bit about why that size and why
you've stuck with it. And one of the other sort of related questions is, especially through COVID, as prices were rising, costs were rising, a lot of people were doing the shrink. Shrinkflation. that term was that they... thank you. So I'm curious if there was any tension around like, should we make this smaller in the world of like in the time of shrinkflation?
So guess, sorry, I asked like three questions at one time, like, you got the right guy on the call because Mike always loves to joke and say he knows more about jars than he ever wanted to know because of the global jar shortage that we have. So 32 ounce, mean, I guess, know, hindsight, no, we could probably have better profitability with something half the size, but like we, always made like very large spheres and like, I guess me not thinking about unit pricing.
down the road, it was just like, this is what just makes the most beautiful jar of pickles with these nice like full spears. You fit the whole length in there with a little bit of head space to spare. like anything that breaks or any funny shaped cucumbers always get like chunked up and topped off in the jar. So it was just a very, I guess the jar being glass and being large just made a statement. And that's kind of why we always stuck with that. As time went on, it was just like, well.
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You know, if we went with the 16 ounce jar, then, you know, our price could be this, making the unit price is making the profitability better. But then as each day went on, the idea of changing our label and then changing the process all for me to think about, well, the labor is still going to be the same, you know, so I might save a couple cents, you know, in the ingredients, but it's still going to take you just as long to fill the jar. And now that they're cheaper, I'm probably going to be able to sell more, which
I don't know if I can take on that more work right now when I was already working a full-time job and making pickles like with my dad at two nights a week, because that's my dad was, you our only employee and my biggest helper through the very early days. So and then it was with those things, it just like the 32 ounce jar was just, guess, was working and it was kind of like, it's not broken. Sure. Maybe I would do things a little bit different, but it was working. It was tied to efficiency, I would say. then then knowing our capabilities.
capacity and also just not wanting to waste any part of the cucumber too. That was a big, big reason we were like, well, what do we do if the sizing doesn't work or they're too big? we're like, this works. So we're going to stick with it. I'm just going to call this out as another big Bobby Yacht moment because again, people would say, maybe I should do this. It'll get it to a price point that's more digestible for people. I love what you said, Mike, about
I would have to produce more jars, which would then take more time and I don't have that time. So, okay, sure, I could save a couple of cents, maybe make a few more cents per jar, but do I have the ability to do and to operate with the outcomes that would come from making that decision? And the answer was no. And you're like, those are our boundaries. Those are the guide rails that we have to operate within. And so we're going to operate within them. And again, stick with
what feels right for us. And I think all of the reasons to stay with that larger jar, because of the, it speaks volumes to the type of food business that you are, right? You're preventing food waste. You're not wanting to be a brand that says, well, that's a funny shaped pickle. So we can't use it, right? Like all of those things I think are valuable. And for certain shoppers, it means a lot, you know, and we're willing to buy that larger.
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jar says because there's meaning behind it. It's not just, but that's the jar that we could afford. then we never change. People still. Okay. No, I was just going to say, and then at this time when we were making product on a regular basis and selling product on a regular basis, we were working out of a shared kitchen at this time. So we were sharing the space with a lot of food trucks, catering companies, not really like CPG brands like what we were in there, probably the only one at the time.
And so we didn't have a lot of space because most of the people working in there were restaurants or food trucks. So I couldn't take on another jar or have another supply because I was already bursting at the seams with this little metal cabinet that all of our stuff had to fit in. like, you know, taking on another jar size to whether it be the same or different flavors of multiple sizes just wasn't an option for us. The two things that came out of sticking with that jar size over time was
Again, seeing the jar at eye level in Wegmans Pickle set in a nice big jar, it's really eye catching and people, we stand out because of that big jar. the other thing that occurred sort of naturally is that, we might not be, you know, participating in shrink flation or moving twice as many jars. But what I will say is that our unit price is actually not
super far off of what some of the other like pre-packed pickles in the pickle set is what it's charging because we're in a bigger jar. are stuffing that jar full to the brim. And it is more expensive at face value. But when you look at what you're getting, you're actually, we're not too far off. Yeah. You're paying for the pickle, not the packaging, right? It's sort of like when you get free shipping.
You're like, I'll buy all the extra things to get the free shipping. like, I'll pay for more Exactly. One jar more pickles, you know what I mean? Kind of idea. Okay, so you pretty much directly or immediately go into wholesale. You've mentioned a couple of times that you're in Wegmans, which for anyone who doesn't live on the East Coast, and I think sort of like the Southeast now, I think they've expanded to like Virginia, if I'm not mistaken.
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interesting shopping experience. It's an amazing, like beloved grocery chain on the East Coast. it definitely, there's definitely like bit of cache, I think, when you land on a a Wegmans shelf. Talk a little bit about, you know, that the the expansion sort of like, what kind of channels are you selling in now? And what did that timeframe look like? Did you take your time kind of expanding into distribution? Are you still selling direct?
how quickly or slowly did the changes happen? Yeah. So we are still self-manufactured and self-distributed. The expansion piece sort of ebbed and flowed with the pandemic and the effects of it. Our sales channels for sure ebbed and flowed with that. And essentially what it looked like is we felt safe and comfortable and wholesale for that first year. And then as prices started to rise in that second year,
Mike and I were like, all right, we need to start retaining those D to C dollars and those margins because I'm a little nervous about maintaining our growth in wholesale. at that moment, were hiring and bringing people on and we wanted to make sure that they were being paid a fair wage.
navigating that was certainly tricky, but we did start, we were doing farmers markets pretty immediately after Mike was laid off. I want to say that we did some over that summer. So we had that sales channel already in place, which was great for capturing those DTC dollars. And then we wanted to start shipping. We knew right off the bat that we weren't feeling comfortable doing that on our own.
you know, jars, So we found a 3PL to do it for us to help get going. And a little bit after that, we hired a publicist because we wanted to get people ordering and we were like, what's the best way to to get our story out there? And I
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You know, I tend to lean on I love telling our story. love branding and marketing, but I was stumped and I was also strapped for time because I was working a full time job and doing this on the side. So I just started connecting with other other small business owners in Philadelphia and thinking like, how do we create more excitement around what we're doing and not just being another pickle? And we
we were very successful with that publicist. came up with some really fun flavor ideas together, pop up events together. And we got a great deal of press and that just drove people to start buying from us online if they couldn't get us from a retailer, which was really, it was working in tandem and just like the farmers market.
sales channel worked very well with getting into more retailers and also keeping our product moving out of doors because you know, we targeted we were like, all right, we want to be in retailers in this area. So let's try and see if they have a farmers market and let's just engage with the customers. And then we'll we'll pitch to that retailer. Yeah, and then we'll work that farmers market and tell shoppers that when we're not there, they can go shop our pickles there. And it just created this
loop of sales. The same thing kind of occurred with our e-commerce. It was rocky to start and now we do have it in-house, which is ideal. Okay. But it helps because we have such loyal customers that want to send our pickles to
so and so for their birthday or so and so is pregnant. They want to send pickles across the country to them. Yeah. Yeah. So that it just worked in tandem and has helped us get into more retailers because more people are talking about it. Yeah. Can I just say that it's really refreshing to hear you say that like you wanted to grow your DTC and the answer to that wasn't more posts on social media.
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It was working with a publicist and then engaging with your community. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And I'll tell you what, thank you for saying that because back then I was craving more likes, more followers. And I was like, how do I do this? Why am I not doing it well enough or whatever? It put me in that whole feedback loop that was not helpful. Thank you.
Yeah, and thank you for sharing that because I think this is so funny. was listening, I was watching, I'm a big sports fan and I was watching Nick Saban and Bill Belichick are like friends. I don't know if you guys follow football or sports, but you know, one of the greatest coach in college football, one of the greatest coaches in NFL football are like best of friends. And they were talking about how data, how technology can make you
It can give you information and it can allow you to do things you've never done before. And they were talking about it from a coaching perspective. Like you lose the game and you can go to the data and be like, hmm, the stats are blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, and you've got all this information. And as a head coach, you're like, we don't need the computer. We weren't tackling well. We didn't tackle anybody. Therefore, they scored touchdowns. Therefore, we lost the game. Like it doesn't actually help you with the mechanics of the game. So it's like
And I'm just sort of connecting that to like Instagram here. Yes, you can go out and people can find you and people could like you. It's not necessarily going to translate into sales for your business. It's not it's not the same as connecting with people. And you are selling a food product which people need to taste to understand what it is like. And I think that the greatest way to do that is to
give people a sample of your product, to get publicity in a trusted publication, in a trusted magazine, to have someone whose tastes are trusted to kind of outtrue all of those types of things. And I just think that this reliance on social media and maybe getting a viral post, which can absolutely change your life, but I just think it's such a long shot. And you went for a more analog way of
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doing it and it worked and that's a very, exciting. Yeah, thank you. It feels exciting for us as well. I mean, it was and we love connecting with our community that is for us the the bread and butter that is what gives back to us and keeps us going. We talk about it all the time. We Yeah, we love to engage with them. They empower us and they you know,
we get information from them and we feel more connected from that. That was really how our mission statement, our value system that came from what people were telling us about us. Yeah. Which was funny. So many moments of, BABOYOT in your story is just making me so excited for you and for you both to be here sharing those
integral moments I think that have brought you to where you are in your business, right? And there are some decisions that go against the grain, that go against sort of like the mainstream or the norm or what you could have done if you were simply responding to what people said you should do rather than what felt right to you. I know that there are some other things. You talked about the cold pack, know, cleaning labeled pickles in glass jars.
the sta- that's not the standard and sticking with that and, and, and not giving that up was, you know, obviously a big Bobby up moment. You mentioned something else, Nikki, in some of our pre- our pre-work for the episode is that, you know, the way that you work with your team is also very, can be, looks very different than how a lot of other businesses operate. And one of those things is a four-day work week. And I feel like, I mean, A, I'm excited to hear about this. And I think some other founders might be interested in this as well.
When did you implement a four day work week and what does that look like? Is it like four 10 hour days? Is it, is it eight hour days for people do like, just give us a little insight into how this works for you guys. Yeah. So it's four eight hour days and you know, right off the bat, as we started to onboard, mean, you know, first we were learning as we went and we were, know, Mike and I were having conversations about, you know,
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what he loves about doing this type of work. Is it for everybody? And really where we landed was like, this is factory work. And no, it's not for everybody. And we live in Philadelphia. And here's, here's what we can pay. Here's how we can take care of these people. And truly, you know, we were just starting out in a time where and there's still a lot being talked about in regards to minimum wage and like,
fair labor and what you're paying your people. And I'll say, you know, there were a lot of small businesses around us, like right off the bat, charging a certain amount that we couldn't afford. so, you know, we weren't about to just offer it. What we did instead was, okay, how can we make this feel right for our team members? They are the backbone of what we're doing, what feels good.
To me, right off the bat, was as simple as a very good, healthy work-life balance and breaks, because that is the thing with what we do. I mean, it is very much an assembly style type process. It's certainly not for everybody. In fact, in interviews, I...
fully admit that it is not for me because I like to do 10 things at once and if I'm doing one thing I'm probably my mind is somewhere else so I won't be the most accurate and focused in what I'm doing in that one moment in that moment You know being really transparent about that and then and then making sure that in those interviews We're having a conversation The other thing that we implemented when we on board is we give people a trial day. So we pay people to come in
and work on the line for a day. And it's, it's really for everybody to make sure that this feels right. You know, because I don't expect somebody who's coming to apply for a job with us to understand what the work is. And I wouldn't hate, wouldn't want somebody to just come in on day one and be like, actually, I don't like this. You know, this isn't for me. So we still do that today as well, just to make sure that people are into this type of work. And then they have that great
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work-life balance and you know something that we found today we have more of our team members on production are actually musicians. So that was another organic happening that occurred where we're like this work actually is vibing with with musicians because
I, to me, it makes sense where they're like very tuned in and it's like they're able to stay focused while doing meditate, know, kind of meditating while they're doing one thing over and over and over again. So that's been pretty cool too. Yeah. And then does everyone work the same four days? So yeah, I was going to say, so yeah, it's for production. Now this has obviously changed as we grew, but we still stick to four production days being Monday through Thursday. And then
Friday is usually the days for me and Nikki to do all the things that we didn't do all week. And then we do farmers markets. We're pretty aggressive and we've gotten smarter and savvier with the farmers markets that we're doing and the festivals that we're doing. So there is always opportunity for our team members, our production team members to take on another day or two. It's always available if they want it to work a farmers market for us. But we also, because we do them so regularly, we have a handful of employees that only do farmers markets.
Some with us that have been with us for a little while now and yeah, and they are doing great and just as, but we actually had a team meeting yesterday and so we had a big mix and we had to talk about a lot of these things that work and don't work. Yeah, that's cool. And on that note, like in your team, you talked a little bit about, again, in our pre-work promoting from within and nurturing your teams, like both skillsets and creativity. It sounds like you give them space to sort of learn.
new things and to sort of step into new roles. Can you talk a little bit about what that looks like? And here's why I'm interested in this. I think that there are some people who would argue that you, as a small business, you should hire people who are experts in a particular area, right? Because you don't have the time or the money to allow people to figure it out. That's literal advice that an unnamed brand had received from an unnamed person.
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And there are people like you guys that seem to have a different opinion and it seems to be working for you. So I'm just curious. I'm sure there's not a blanket answer for that because I realized that like I'll like I'm sure that it's very true and more true for other businesses. For us, don't like to think of us that we're just a factory. But at the end of the day, it's a very repetitive thing. And to a degree, it's kind of fitting to be a factory. We want to be able to play on the strengths that people also bring to the table. And really what it all comes down to for us at one time is
If you're a decent person to be around and you're a hard and worker, reliable person, I can teach you anything else. I can't teach you how to come to work. can't teach you to be on time or be nice to people, but I can teach you how to work here. So, so it was really the growth that way hiring people for better to be experts in specific areas. That might've been easier on Nikki and I, but I don't think that would have been easier on the.
Certainly not financially, not even a little bit. then otherwise too, like those experts in those areas, sure they are gonna be, wanna be compensated for their expertise, but they also might not be able to work production, know, and be like Nikki and, you know, just need to be doing 10 things at all times, you know? Yeah. And we sort of started to see that. So we hired our first team member in May of 2020, our second in October.
And then the third, literally the week before we had our son, so it was May of 21, those three team members stuck with us. So while all the other businesses around us were saying that they were having labor issues and labor challenges, we for really long, for years, were saying like, we shouldn't say anything out loud, but we are holding onto our people. We haven't had that challenge.
And I really do think, to some degree, and I have, I'm gonna say that, Mike and I have had to learn how to be just slightly less accommodating because I think we tend, he and I are both innately and personally like people pleasers and that's part of our personal growth that we're working through. But, you know, right? You know, but I think in this realm, in attracting people,
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to doing this type of factory work, attracting Gen Z and like seeing that believing and seeing their potential and where they can fit in this equation has really served us super well. Right off the bat, I mean, the attraction for the first three team members or at least two of the three was like, they were interested, they were intrigued, they wanted to see what we were doing, they wanted to change. A lot of people came to us with wanting a change.
Yeah. And not knowing, you know, this felt like the right first step. Let's try it again. Not necessarily. We don't want to be everybody's guinea pig per se, but, know, we've been able to get some individuals with some really awesome skillsets and talents. mean, employee number two employee number three are still with us. They both used to work only production. The first went into an admin role because we saw her.
basically wanting to organize and be taking the initiative to like, create manuals and do all those things that we did not have time for. And, and we were like, perfect. We know we see what you're good at and what you're interested in. And we were able to build a job around that. And now she's fully, you know, transitioned into she's our admin and
special projects coordinator. And I love to call her our Jill of all trades because she really takes a lot of load off of Mike and I. And then the second employee who was in production transitioned to becoming our driver. And he was in a role where he was producing two days a week and then our driver two days a week. And then, you know, we've continued on in that way. If somebody came to us and they said, you know, I'm interested in production, but I also have these
skill sets or these interests. Look, as a small business, the needs in your operation are endless. So there's always something that somebody can be doing to be adding value. And the trick is finding that sweet spot that really does add value to the operation and also help the team member feel fulfilled.
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So we just, yeah, we like to have conversations, a lot of conversations with people. We typically do every two weeks when there's a new hire, we're having an informal check-in with them. And then maybe at that 30 day mark and then every six months just to say, hey, is there something else that you want here? Is there something else that you feel like you could offer here? And then see where it...
where it fits. And that has helped us a lot because yeah, like you said, we didn't have the funds to spend on somebody or even risk because we have tried that where we're like, okay, we're gonna hire a manager to take this, that and the other off of Mike's plate. And then, you hire them at a certain rate and then they stick around for only a couple of months and then you're back to square one.
We did that a couple of times and that did not feel right. It did not work well. And, you know, it's just proven that like when you were promoting from within, it saves you dollars on the training and onboarding for sure. Saves you dollars when you are like someone comes to us and they're like, I really like, you know, filming or like producing video content, but I have no real, it's not on my resume. I just like to do it. And it's great. I
would love to utilize that if you're open to it. And then you just kind of figure out it's like a puzzle. Yeah. Well, I think you make a good point in this is that like you have to make you have to find that sweet spot of where someone's interests are a benefit to the company. Right. It's not like, well, I like to make pasta. I'm like, right. So that's not going to work. Right. Right. It's like, that's obviously a very dramatic example. But but but
I've seen it where it's like someone is like, well, I don't want to do this. And it's like, okay, well, then you don't have to do that. Okay, well, I also don't want to do this. And then you end up with like employees that exist in a way that they're not really benefiting the team as a whole. They're not really benefiting the company, but, maybe this is what you were kind of speaking to you, you're kind of accommodating them because you want to keep them on the team or you need to keep them on the team, right? But over time you realize, well, we kind of, maybe we gave too much.
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leeway to this person, right? And are they really contributing to the team in a way that like everybody else is? And I think it's difficult, especially as small business owners, it can be hard to find people who want to stick around who, as you mentioned Mike, who want to work, who are nice to people who show up, you know? And so when you find them, you you want to give them, you know, whatever they want in many instances, but holding your ground on what you
can't give up in a certain role and also what you are able to pay someone I think is another really hard boundary to have with people because it's, you we go through this, right, actually are going through this with a couple clients right now where they've got core team members who are like, I need five to $8 more an hour. And it's like, I hear you and I understand that that's your need, but we can't afford that. So you have to have then a hard conversation about where do we go from here? And I think a lot of
founders would just say, okay, we got to find a way to make this work for this person, or we'll pay this person extra and then we'll get more sales. And it can be a dangerous place to be as a founder when you want to give your team everything they ask for. It's incredibly tough sometimes. What we start at or what people are making is not by any means, we want you to have whatever you feel you deserve, but at the same time, you can't get plugged
of stone, right? So like, you know, can't be the business can't afford to pay you something that it does not have. One of the exercises that we went through, actually with our team meeting yesterday was like, what it costs strictly in labor to make a jar of pickles. And I was like, it's a very, very easy math. You can do it any day you went on the line, take it, take everybody's rate multiplied by eight, you know, divided by how many jars were made today. And that's what it costs to make it. making sure that like, we're all clear on the same page, it's like, well, these are where the numbers come from. If we
Open door policy, we can find a way to improve this or you have any ideas on how to structure some bonuses or incentives to increase the production, we are happy to share that with you. But a quota does need to be met to be able to make payroll. Yeah, I love that. I love that transparency around finance with the team. Yeah, and it's helped with buy in greatly, like their commitment and we.
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We talk about this again in the interview, like we really try to be super transparent about the type of organization that we are and that we want to become. you know, one of my famous lines is, know, we, the benefit to working here is that we can grow beyond our four walls and we truly wholeheartedly believe that we will continue to do so we already have. And so when people hear that and see that they're.
You know, they're thrilled to be in an organization where they they're side by side by ownership. A lot of the time, which, know, has morphed over time and will continue to morph. But nonetheless, they see us, they hear from us and they see the growth trajectory and they see opportunity for themselves. And that's a beautiful gift to offer somebody, you know, we primarily employ people in their like mid twenties to like
maybe mid 30. So to hear that, I know for me, if I heard that at age 25, I would have been really excited. It's like, because some people really are still trying to find their path. And yeah, that opportunity is exciting. I mean, this talk about finances and financial sort of clarity with your team.
You also told us that understanding your financials is the single most important factor for sustainability. And you said that that is the biggest lesson you've learned about your finances. How did you come to that realization? And do you have any words of advice for fellow founders? I would say that it came from talking with other businesses and then finally getting linked up with some business advisors through, you know, we were actually in
looking for a small business loan at the time when we got linked to a nonprofit here in Philadelphia that, you know, told us straight away that, you know, you guys might be too sophisticated to loan to you're not in our demographic. know, I know, but, from what we hear, you know, we offer this free advisement and I think maybe you would benefit from, from that.
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So we were linked to advisors through that organization and we still chat with them at least once a month, if not every other week. And that practice with them, plus truly listening to the Good Food CFO, like putting all of the pieces, yeah, really it became very clear that for quite some time we were running our business, just not completely blind, but like,
blindish and that we needed to get savvier and smarter. like, you know, as Mike said, we had our annual meeting yesterday. So we were fortunate to have historical data where like all of the pieces of the puzzle are aligned. And it's like, that's right. Well, that happened because of that. And that happened. And during that time, and it just all made sense. And, and you can see. So the interesting thing when we looked back,
2023 for us was a very like a strong revenue year with not a ton of net coming back. And 2024 was, if you looked just comparison of revenue, it showed that we were not, there wasn't crazy growth. And in fact, one of our sales channels was down. But you looked at the net and it was like,
there's the difference, know, difference was evident based on us becoming more informed, savvier with our numbers, for sure savvier in our spending, you know, throughout the years really saying, cause you could see a theme like, and I love saying, like I could spell out every year had its own theme. The theme of this year has been just being savvier and like you see it.
And it's really, really fascinating. And it's really empowered us when we're going to make any big next steps, big expenditure steps to really look at, OK, you know, what's the risk here? Do we have it? And what's the the ROI? And to have those conversations has been invaluable to us. Yeah, it's so cool. Something like the vibe I'm getting from you guys is that your company is fun.
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that your company, like the culture is very caring and connected, but also that there's a sense of formality in that there's a job to do here. The numbers are important and we can have a good time, create a delicious product, connect with our community and a way to do that is to make sure we check in with those numbers. The fact that you're looking at year over year data, mean,
I think that there is something to be said for consistency and kind of taking yourself seriously in the parts of your business where you need to take it seriously, if you know what I mean. And I'm getting that sense from you guys. Yes. Thank you for that. That's really what it is. I like to think that.
We've always wanted that. I think I've been so miserable at past jobs that I don't think working hard and being happy are two things that can absolutely happen. So I really like, are we doing repetitive things in the kitchen? But guess what? We are. But we're also laughing and talking about music and listening to music and talking about movies and TV shows. I think a lot of our staff, Nikki mentioned, we have a lot of musicians, have to deal with people through their careers, but didn't want to.
just shut off, work with a small team and put their head down and work. really, it just jives both ways and works well for us. And then did the two of you do financial check-ins on your own, like separate from the team as leaders of the business? I I check in with myself in the financials every single day, multiple times a day. With Niki and I, we could probably meet a little bit better about lots of things than we do. I guess with the true honest answer, we're getting better.
We're getting better. There's always room for improvement. We're getting better. It's been a process. Again, we joke, but we started a business, we quit our jobs, and we had a baby who's now three and a half. It is not for the faint of heart I wouldn't even recommend it. I wouldn't recommend it. No.
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So there's, you know, there's not so we're, we're, we're switching gears now that we've hit like, you know, technically since we LLC, we're in year six. Now what we're doing is looking at the big picture. We're empowered enough to say, okay, what do we need to be able to do this from a sound and smart place? And that was really, you know, the goal of what we were trying, what we were getting across yesterday to our team members is, you know,
we had to, like for me, the tangible example was I used to send e-newsletters out twice a week just to make sure that we had a certain number of online orders to make sure that the person coming in to ship had enough work and that we weren't spending so much on labor to ship those items. And 2024 was the year to leave that behind and say, well, because I had to put my
strategy brain on and really hone in on that. And it's, you know, we only have so many hours in the day, we really had to get real about, okay, what are we spending our time on? And it's a constant work in progress. mean, because there are still things that Mike loves to do, because he loves to do them, I love to do because I love to do them. But at the end of the day, you know, we've got to be able to have these conversations and
make time for them. when it happens, I mean, that's having our business advisement meetings on a regular that forces us to go through it and to talk about it, which is really great. We love that they hold us accountable in that way, because it's still tricky to find quiet time at home.
I'm a CFO and the finances are something we touch on weekly for our company and our team meeting, but I will absolutely tell you that the last time, it always kind of gets pushed. This made it to the bottom of the list. We'll look at it next week. You know I mean? We'll look at the P &L from July next week. You really do have to put it on that to-do list. I'm just sharing that even I push it off.
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I don't always have the meeting with my bookkeeper when I'm supposed to, because there's a lot to do. So it happens. But overall, my comment still stands that the transparency with the team and the awareness, it's a lovely thing to hear. And it seems like, I think it will take you guys really far, which is really exciting to see.
I could go on talking and talking with you all forever as I can with many of our guests, but we've officially crossed the one hour mark in our recording time together. So I want to respect your very busy schedules. Seeing as how your parents and business owners and you've got farmers markets this weekend, I'm sure. So any any final words that you want to share before we sign off for the day? Go ahead, Nick. No, you're good with the final words. Go ahead. you can also say no. And I can cut that part out. no, no. Likewise. I love talking about.
stuff. You know, it's our lives. mean, you know, we've been very fortunate in so many ways. But yeah, I love talking about this stuff too. And again, it's extremely hard, but the parts that are rewarding are very rewarding. Yeah. And I would say, you know, care for your people, care for your people, care for your people, because that you can't go far without caring for them. And it's
I'm talking about your team members. I'm talking about your audience, your community that really does come first and making sure to play on your own strengths and passions and theirs as well. And that takes, it may not always seem like the most efficient way or the way that brings you back ROI the quickest, but it really does pay off in the long.
And I feel confident in saying that given that we've gone through the last six years, which were pretty wild times. Well, for those of you listening, you can learn more about Fishtown Pickles on Instagram. And then also go ahead and give us your website and any other contact info that our listeners should have. Yep. So you can find us at fishtownpickles.com. We're on Facebook.
(01:10:47.721)
We're somewhat on TikTok. And we do have a newsletter that you can subscribe to where we're posting about new flavors. We do pickling classes. So if anybody's somewhat local, you could subscribe and get information about the pickling classes as well there. Amazing. And I will be in Fishtown hopefully very, very soon meeting both of you and eating your pickles.
But in the meantime, thank you both so much for spending time with me today. I appreciate you very much. you, Sarah. Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity.
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